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Michael or John?

Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:24 pm
by Kudzu
I was noticing in my reading and research that John Carr was in the air force for 10 or 11 years. Considering the length of his service, isn't it likely Michael had a more prominent role in the activities in and around Yonkers?

Re: Michael or John?

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:09 pm
by Omega
Hey Kudzu!

It's great to see people finding this forum and signing up to post! It's a slow moving train, but hopefully more find their way here and share their thoughts and insights.

As far as the Carr brothers are concerned, I guess if one goes down the line that the Yonkers group existed since the late 1950s - early 1960s (or even earlier), it could be that John "started the fire" and Michael ran or maintained "the business" later on.

Re: Michael or John?

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:20 pm
by Kudzu
Other than JP Ranieri's account of John in 1961, is there any other account of John Carr being involved that early? He was pretty young...

Re: Michael or John?

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:53 pm
by Omega
Brother JP Ranieri is not revealed to "The Ultimate Evil" world until Maury adds the Epilogue to the back of the 1999 Barnes and Noble edition of "The Ultimate Evil"

Maury writes in that Epilogue:

"In 1992, another ghost from the past materialized, this time in the New York phase of the Son of Sam inquiry. He described himself as "an old alley cat with seven of its nine lives gone"

"He was called Brother John, and in the 1960s he was a close friend and classmate of none other than John Carr."

"The Ultimate Evil" was first published in 1987. So, it kind of looks like Maury, in 1999, is making the case that Brother John doesn't come back into the SOS picture until 1992 and that Brother John is solidifying the evidence on John Carr, that Maury presented in the original "The Ultimate Evil", rather than being an original source of the connection.

I'm curious, what side of the fence do you fall on - Both Carr brothers involved? Michael is, but not John? Berkowitz acted alone? Other?

No correct answer. Just want to see what your take is.


Re: Michael or John?

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:14 pm
by Kudzu
I can't really see either brother NOT being involved as I believe the Berkowitz account of things. It seems very much to me like David Berkowitz believes it too, if you get my meaning. His later interviews after his conversion seem very honest; even if he may not have had the whole picture himself.

It also feels like from the tone of the letters sent to Borelli and Breslin that the Carrs may have led Berkowitz to believe that John was going to take the fall and then they pulled the old switcheroo. Sending the letters and the accompanying publicity of them could've been used to show Berkowitz their good faith so to speak. Reassurance that John Carr was the fall guy. I thought I heard him (Berko) say in interviews that he had a falling out with the Carrs or had been betrayed, I'll have to review the interviews again. That would fit and be logical to me.

Having said that I think John Carr was too busy with his military service to be involved at a much deeper level than even Berkowitz. He just wasn't there on a regular basis for eleven years. That would sort of finger Michael as being involved a higher level than the other two. I don't know that much about Michael's movements during the years before the shootings started. Does anyone? I guess it's sort of assumed (as dangerous as that is to do) that Michael was in Yonkers and involved with the cult from his teens until his death. One of the many frustrating holes in the story.

What do you think Omega?

Re: Michael or John?

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:09 pm
by Omega
The other thing is the mention/clue of "John Wheaties, rapist and suffocator of young girls" in the Breslin letter.

No doubt a direct hint to John Carr. But why mention it so directly? Is John being set up for the one to take the fall, before the debacle with Berkowitz and the parking ticket happens?

No mention of a "Michael" in the letters (just speculation on "The Duke of Death" and Michael's "Czar" moniker/alias)

Michael also seems to be one of the main suspects for writing the letters, based on his background with the styling of the letters.

I also don't recall seeing John in that Michael Carr wedding photo that surfaced recently. Was John at MichaeI's wedding? I may have missed it though.

A question to ponder may be "What was the relationship of the Carr brothers with each other?"